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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 24 post(s)
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 379	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:08:00 - [1] - Quote Results of the nerf to non-ice/ore refinement efficiency and/or to below that of ice/ore refinement: -Looters will no longer bring in modules valued only for refinement. -A categoric and universal reduction in the mineral value (base value) of ALL non-ore/ice refinement items, from modules to ships. (This one cannot be overstated. ALL non-ice/ore refinement items in the game will have their base value reduced by this change. Though production costs are not directly affected, the value of those commodities post production is reduced, as a factor of the reduced profit from refining them back into minerals. So this affects not only game generated modules from loot, but also player produced refinable commodities.) -Death of the non-ore/ice refining profession, for the two stacking reasons outlined above. Lack of materials brought to market for refinement AND the reduced value of every single on of those items in refinement mineral outcome. -Further excacerbated by the fact that instead of skilling for non-ice/ore refinement into an market devoid of refinable items and all at reduced value, the dame time can be spent to skill into ice/ore refinement instead, for which the market will provide plenty of unrefined materials and of which there is likely to be an net increase of in volume. What is the reason/justification that is beneficial to the game, for causing the above? The Dev Blog does not provide one either directly or by implication. Infact it tries to claim that this will encourage the non-ice/ore refining profession for skilling, which is unfortunately completely false for the reasons I have demonstrated above. It infact does the exact opposite of what they propose, and kills that niche profession which already today is a very tight margin business. WHY is this change being made? Can a Dev elaborate on the justification for this specific change please?
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 09:54:00 - [2] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Tell me, why would you do mining and refining in null if high sec offers the exact same reward? Doesnt the ore varieties available in null answer this in some part atleast on the mining side of things? Ice being the exception, as a flat commodity available everywhere in predictable location and duration. (Hopefully something to be addressed eventually) On the refining side of things I agree player run installations should have an incentive over NPC stations.
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 10:48:00 - [3] - Quote baltec1 wrote: This change to refining means that mining in null for low ends is an attractive option and makes building things in null a lot eaiser. It also means we can import big volumes of minerals from high sec easier and for less cost which again, is going to be a big help for producing in null. Doesnt this create a reverse impetus though? At the same time as mining becomes more profitable and efficient in null, due to logistic ease of refining the ore at a higher efficiency locally, with less transport involved, the compression of high-sec ores and transporting those to the same high efficiency null refineries is also added. Why not just continue mining in high-sec with alts in safety, compressing and shipping to null-sec refineries?
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 12:14:00 - [4] - Quote baltec1 wrote: The time to mine the stuff doesn't go away. Transport time and cash however does The time to mine stuff goes away when you simply buy the ice/ore in high-sec (compressed or not) and ship that. You still get the 20% increased yield upon arrival. The time to mine is simply replaced by time in hauling, and its "faster" to buy a bulk of ice/ore (compressed or not) and move it, than it is to actually mine it. By leveraging the increased refine yield, you can essentially eliminate the need to mine in the first place.
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 12:30:00 - [5] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Mine stuff in highsec, transport from highsec to null station, transport from refinery to forge, transport to market Mine in null next door to refinery, transport to refinery, transport from refinery to forge, transport to market. Which one of these has lower costs and takes less time? The first one takes more time. But what takes less time than either one, is buying high-sec ice/ore (compressed or not) and hauling it to a null sec refinery for a 20% increase in yield. When you do this in sufficient quantity, the amount you can move and refine for a 20% markup results in more total minerals for the same time spent than either of the above. Furthermore, as to the point of this incentivising mining in null sec, that comes with the invariable rent cost. The higher potential profits that a miner can hope for, if he has access to refining personally, are mitigated by the rent cost of having access to those facilities in the first place. To a net result that they may still just as well remain just as profitably in mining in high-sec in safety, selling to market, as they would doing so in null sec to a better refinery, but having to pay rent for the privilege.
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 13:54:00 - [6] - Quote By means of an example. I have an ice/ore mining alt currently in an NPC Corp in high sec. What incentive can a null corp offer me, pending these changes, that I join and come down there to contribute my output to the null economy?
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 14:00:00 - [7] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Most likely nothing because you dont want there to be a reason for you to go to null. Sorry, I don't understand. I do want there to be a reason for me to bring him down to null, and that is why I'm asking what reason there would be for doing so. If this change is supposed to incentivise mining activity in null, I want to capitalise on that if possible, and hence am asking what benefit there would be to me in doing so.
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 14:08:00 - [8] - Quote baltec1 wrote: You have spent your entire time in this thread arguing with the people happy with this change. That is not fair or true. I could argue the same towards you saying that you have spent your entire time in this thread arguing with the people unhappy with this change, and it would be equally unfair and untrue. I'm sincerely asking out of personal self-interest for making profit on my miner, and for purposes of putting the changes proposed into a real frame of reference, what benefit I would stand if I take my unaffiliated miner who is currently just mining ice day in day out and selling it directly to market in high-sec, to null sec pending these changes.
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 14:24:00 - [9] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Ice, Access to ice anoms, rorq bonuses, 20% refine bonus, access to entire alliance/coalition POS network market, less transport costs. Thanks for the reply. I can mine Ice in high-sec with less risk and have no transport costs as I can sell it raw directly from the in-system stations to existing BOs that exceed those of even market hubs. The 20% refine bonus would be nice, but I have no ice-refining skills. The character is only good at mining itself. Do I gain free access to your refineries and will someone refine my stuff for me? If not, at what cost?
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 14:44:00 - [10] - Quote baltec1 wrote: If you decide to not refine it for yourself and you chose to not to go to null for the 20% bonus or the rorq bonus thats up to you. You will earn less than someone else who is willing to do those things. I see. So in order for this to be an incentive to come to null for my alt as a miner, I also need to be a refiner and have access to a null refinery or rorq.

Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.03.23 14:50:00 - [11] - Quote baltec1 wrote: If there is more than enough reward outside of high sec why are the vast bulk of miners in high sec? Christ even the bots are almost totaly located in high sec and they are all about getting the most isk for their time. I dont think this change will bring any substantial influx of miners to null. As to bot preponderance in high-sec, I think that is related to the low risk of being blown up, whereas botters would be KOS in null. I mean if I was ever to bot, not that I would, Id set my fleets up in remote high-sec fields where nobody will ever even notice me ingame.
Salvos Rhoska Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 417	Posted - 2014.03.23 18:52:00 - [12] - Quote Blog could be renamed: "Reprocess all your things before the nerf!" I'm only half-joking. We all actually quite seriously have to reprocess our junk stockpiles before the changes hit.

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